Category: philosophy/religion topics
Who exactly does the Bible say the devil is? I know there are many other religions who believe in dualism, but does the Bible teach that everything that is evil comes from the devil? I don't imagine the Bible says that the devil is god's opposite, and yet the Bible says that god created everything. When I fantasize about poisoning my neighbor's dog that barks too much, is the devil responsible for these fantasies? Or am I? When can I be sure that the devil is responsible for evil or "sin" and how can I know when I'm responsible for my own evil or "sin"? Anybody know? Please inform me about these little things...
Humans are solely responsible, the devil is a convenient christian scapegoat, used to absolve humans of all blame, for their evil inhumane acts on this dying planet.
Then I can infer that humans are guilty of the evils they commit. What you've said implies that there is a coming judgement. If you admit that there is evil intentionally done on this planet, and that the devil is a human invention to deliver the race from its guilt, then that still leaves humans guilty. So does that mean then that the coming wrath of god is true, when his justice will prevail?
In the case of the Holcaust, and the terrible suffering inflicted by the Japanese on the Burma railway, then yes, as they deliberately and systematically murdered innocent people. If you mean a murder committed by a schizophrenic, who was inadequately treated then no, as the person was not in control of their own mind. As for your god I'm an atheist so the coming wrath is irrelevant to me. The question of the devil is interesting, I used the analogy as an example, it's not my personal belief. However, I do believe the devil exists. And humans are undeniably guilty we are drowning in guilt. Getting back to the wrath of god. Hmmm the christian god if such a being exists, I doubt he cares sufficently to punish the human race for their dispicable conduct, aren't we punishing ourselves enough?
This is a very interesting discussion.
The concept of Satan as a personification of evil isn't evident until we get to the new testament, which seems to let the Jews off the hook. However, evil per se presents a real problem for Christianity (though this doesn't seem to bother most of them.)
The argument concerning evil can be spelled out thusly:
1. If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.
2. If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil.
3. If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
4. If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
5. Evil exists.
6. If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn't have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn't know when evil exists, or doesn't have the desire
to eliminate all evil.
7. Therefore, God doesn't exist.
Thanks,
Bob
I think the devil is responsible for all these bad fantasies, and I also believe that, like the bible said, one of god's angels (yes, that's right, he created them) turned into the devil. At least this is what I believe.
But Bob, what if God just decided to give us free will and let us do evil things? I've heard it explained that he wants us to turn to him and be good, moral people, but the whole free will thing gets in the way. That is why, supposedly, there is going to be a point when the world as we know it will end and only those who have truly tried to be good and have asked God for forgiveness will be allowed to start over.
I am definitely no Bible expert and have never read it all the way through or discussed it much. I just have never believed that just because there is evil in the world that it means God doesn't exist.
Goblin: how can you claim to be an atheist and yet believe in the devil at the same time? If you believe in a devil, then you must believe in a god too. I think you're a theist, someone who believes god created the universe but is indifferent to what goes on in this planet. Atheists say that the existence of god cannot be proven, so how can you prove that the devil exists?
Bob: The bible presents the devil or satan in the book of genesis, way before christianity existed. The bible says that behind every idol there is a demon.
I've also heard those premises before, but I've always thought that mortal man cannot understand a sovereign being, if such a being exists. Who is mortal man to be saying how and when god should do away with evil? Don't you think it's arbitrary on our part to be saying that god cannot destroy evil because if he could, then he would have done so by now? If a god does exists, in mhy opinion, he would have to be sovereign over all things. It's arbitrary on our part to say how and when god should do something. I don't believe it's right for mortals to set times for a sovereign being, a being who is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, all characteristics that we do not possess.
Also, the bible, if we consider what it says, points out clearly that God will ultimately destroy all evil; but according to his set time, not ours. We as mortals are unaware of all the factors in the big picture. I know the bible says that god is patient toward all, so that none should perish but that all may come to repentance.
I once spoke with a seventh-day adventist who explained something to me about why god hasn't destroyed evil. he said to me that all creation is in the midst of a great controversy which began before our universe was created. Supposedly, the devil, then Lucifer, became angry with god because he found out that he was being excluded from the councils held concerning our future existence. Lucifer thought himself too important to be left out. He was filled up with pride and in effect began to slander the righteousness of god. he made one third of the angels doubt in god's righteousness. God was wise in not destroying Lucifer,now turned satan, because if he had destroyed him at that very moment, the other angels would say that god destroyed satan because satan was saying the truth about god. So god permitted satan to go on living but there was no place found in heaven for him anymore. So satan is still roaming up and down earth seeking whom he may devour. The controversy will end when the true purpose of satan in slandering god will come out, and then in effect the name and righteousness of god will be vindicated. Only then can god destroy
I want to be clear that I'm agnostic when it comes to these issues. I haven't understood all there is to be understood, and I don't think anybody ever will understand it all. I agree a lot on what the bible says because much of what it says makes life understandable. It has an explanation for why evil and good exists, it has an explanation for why life exists. But in the end, it is impossible to fully know the truth, and this is what keeps me in ignorance.
I'd probably go as far as to call myself a theist because I don't believe in evolution. The universe is so complex, so unknowable and misunderstood that there is just no way I can see it as some cold, random, and purposeless thing. I could never see myself as a descendant of apes. I mean, out of self-respect, I'd rather not. But the bible says that when god's son took on the form of a human, clothing himself in our mortality, he elevated the worth of humankind. It amazed me when I first heard of this. That god would humble himself to identify with corrupt, evil people. I mean, does it mean nothing to you, doesn't it touch you in any way that god would do such a thing? I can't prove that any of this is true, but just considering what the bible says about this helps me understand why we value life so much.
I don't believe there's a devil-thing that makes people do evil things or just governs evil. People will do a lot of bad things for lots of motivations which can be as simple as they want to and they feel like it. Sometimes I think the whole concept of heavenly reward and hellish punishment is wishful thinking. It's all in the I-Don't-know realm, since I guess I have to die to really find out first-hand, don't I?
Godzilla on toast, I'm of the same opinion that certain things in this life are unknowable. I often think it's unfair that things in this life, especially things in my own life, are unknowable. I tend to agree with socrates' advice though, that the unexamined life is not worth living. But one thing about the bible that catches my attention is the promises it gives about a time when all things will be revealed. It's true that not all things are knowable, the bible even acknowledges this. But the christians are encouraged to not focus on the unknowable but rather to cling onto what god has already revealed. The bible gives deep answers to some of life's questions.
One thing that almost convinces me that the bible is the true word of god is that it contains many fulfilled prophecies. Many atheists have been convinced solely by the strength of the fulfilled prophecies. I once read a book that dealt with the subject of prophecies concerning Jesus. There are so many things written in the old testament that make me wonder: Wow, maybe god did reveal to them the events surrounding Jesus' life: his first coming, suffering, death and resurrection. So many things were foretold that it seems unlikely that the prophets were guessing. Maybe our universe isn't a closed system after all.
That Jesus existed is a historical fact, even extrabiblical sources testify to this. I don't know if the lives of Buddha or Muhammad were foretold, but the old testament contains many instances where men prophesied about the first coming of christ. I don't know what to say about all of this!
I often think that it's not important to know about god. But then again, I often ask myself: What if what Jesus said is true? What if what the bible says is true? Anyone who reads the new testament becomes aware that the things written in it were written by eyewitnesses who were willing to die for what they believed. I tend to not believe people who try to tell me that god exists. Nor do I believe people who try to tell me that god doesn't exist. In order to make that conclusion, one needs to have knowledge of all possible evidence, of all possible facts that would support their arguments. But the bible doesn't deal with the controversy in this way. The bible simply states facts about certain events and leaves it up to the reader to accept it or reject it.
It's up to us to decide if Jesus lived. It's up to us to decide if his life was foretold. The facts seem to support this. The claims he made are so amazing! He claimed to have authority over all creation. He claimed to be the son of god. He claimed to be the bread of life. He claimed to be the truth. No other person has ever made such claims. And if his life was foretold, then maybe we should pay closer attention to what the bible says. I mean, think about it. Here we have a man who claimed to come from heaven, who claimed to know all things from beginning to end. And if the extrabiblical sources are truthful, if the writings of the bible are true, then we have to face the fact that he truly did exist, and that his life was foretold, and that he was indeed who he claimed to be.
I don't intend to convince you about these things. I myself don't know how to respond to these issues. But what I've learned from my personal study has given me the wisdom to be cautious whenever discussing things written in the Bible.
That's what I don't understand about all of this. If God had the power to make us believe, then why doesn't God just do that? Is it because God wants us to choose to believe in him? Well, that makes God pro-choice, doesn't it? Well, at least we've settled one debate.
I really don't mind that some things in life are uncertain, plus I'm supposed to believe that life is unfair. Actually, life isn't a being but a concept, so concepts don't feel one thing or another , do they? But anyhow, as an agnostic, I have no problem saying I don't know in reply to a lot of these great questions. Then again, maybe the answer is fourty-two.
Ha ha! Godzilla on toast, I know what you mean. I wish I didn't have to deal with all the words, I wish the answer was as easy as 1,2,3. But still, man, I've got a brain up in my head, and I'm more than happy to use it. I mean, that's the purpose of our minds anyway. Besides, thinking makes me feel alive, like I'm not brain dead.
I read in the bible a long time ago that everything god wanted to communicate to us, to the human race, has been given to us already. He began with creation, the gift of life, a gift we had no choice in accepting or rejecting. Then he gave us the ten commandments to teach us how to live according to his will. Then he gave us the prophets. And everything culminated with the revelation of his son Jesus. That's one thing that makes christianity unique, god revealed himself to humankind, or at least that's what the bible contains. In the epistle to the romans, the apostle paul says that everything a person needs in order to know that god exists has been given, and that this truth can be seen in god's creation. I mean, do you guys really think that if god does exist, and one day we were to find out that he truly does exist, would we have any excuse to say that we had never heard of him? We've been arguing about him for so long now, humankind has been debating this same issue for thousands of years.
There have been many times when I thought about this and the only thing I can conclude is that perhaps the reason why we can't understand the things about god is that we just don't care. And the bible says that this is what would happen in our times. We would become godless and completely unaware of our own creator. I often wonder: maybe all this time god has done all that is within his power to reach us and every time we have just blown him off. The freaking bible actually says that! It even goes so far as to say that everyone is without excuse. Everyone knows that god exists. Enough has been revealed to every person in order to know that god exists. And whatever knowledge we may have, however small that knowledge may be, god will judge us according to it.
Maybe a lot has to do with the condition of our hearts. Our conscience tells us what's right and what's wrong. This is what makes us unique, it sets us apart from all other creatures. I once read that god has shown us mercy in that he has not allowed us to be completely governed by evil, by our own evil desires. We were created in his image, that is, we were created with a mind, with free will, and endowed with the ability to create, either life through woman, or everyday things such as cars and buildings.
I better stop here, I'm beginning to sound like a christian. But still, man, just for the sake of speculation, these things do make my imagination run wild. In the end though I have to admit that I'm still unconvinced. I wasn't born with knowledge about god. I had to be taught that we're supposed to believe in god. You know too that the Greeks believed in something called innate ideas. According to their beliefs, every man and woman has an idea about perfection, about immortality, about eternity, and this knowledge is supposed to point to some existence we had prior to life here on earth. The bible says something similar to this, except it says that these ideas, in other words, our conscience, points to the fact that god gave us the ability to know what is right and wrong. Basically, our conscience is god's law written in our hearts. I don't know what you guys think about that but, to me, it's just something to really think about.
If we truly didn't mind that many things in this life are uncertain, life itself would be purposeless; we'd work just for the sake of working but not to have food on our table, we'd obey the traffic signals just for the sake of obeying the traffic signals but not to keep from being run over by a car, we'd avoid danger just for the sake of avoiding danger but not because we wanted to make it home. If life is a concept, then it must be acutely aware of its own fragility.
Germangirl you are referring to the story of Lucifer who was thrown out of heaven for disobeying the christian god. Lucifer is NOT the devil,this being was turned into the devil to give the christian community something to blame for their sins.Lucifer was the light bringer and if you take the story literally, then heaven must be completely dark due to the lack of his light.
Raskolnikov, I'm going to have to defer your two responses to somebody else because I don't understand at least half of what you're talking about. As to my approach towards uncertainty, I guess what I'm saying is that although I'm a cynic I can't say I'm a pessimist or paranoid and I don't expect simple answers to complex questions. Some things, especially philosophical things are mysteries, or at best have no one right answer and it's all about what the individual can comprehend or what seems to work for them. We're all not going to think alike and we never will.
Godzilla on Toast, Don't worry. I think it's pretty clear to everyone that I have no idea about what I'm saying. Most of what I've said on the last few posts is just me sharing my thoughts about what I've been told and what I've studied. I myself don't understand half of what is in my head. Maybe a theologian or historian could help me out in understanding some of the questions I have. I wish people would share their thoughts about god and religion instead of just slandering christians and any other system of beliefs. I myself don't like to speak evil about things I don't understand. I'm beginning to think this website isn't the right place to share my thoughts because many times there isn't much feedback. You're probably the only one I've encountered that has something to say. If people would just be willing to say what's on their minds, we could learn a lot from each other.
Oh, I wouldn't worry about getting feedback or not. If I have something to say in a topic I'll say it anyhow even if it goes over most people's heads or is seen as just too weird for words. Sometimes just writing things down can be a sort of release. I'm quite surprised, what with all the drama and hate that's supposed to be going on here, that I have not been flooded with hate mail in my private mailbox for having ideas that do not go along with group think.
Raskolnikov (damned I liked your former name better, it was easier to spell) frankly, from your posts here, I deduce that you are a Christian and just don't know it yet.
If I'm wrong, and I hope I am, think. You have a brain, so use it. Don't buy the myths, don't let some other person or some book do your thinking for you. You can get ideas from books (the Bible is a good source), and from people. Just be aware that most people are salesmen of some kind, be it idols or ideas. They want you to agree with them.
Goblin is right about Satan not being Lucifer. That is Satan as we think we know him today. When I said that Satan didn't show up until the New Testament, I meant the Satan we know today. In Genesis he is presented as a serpent, and in Job (which I believe to be possibly the most beautiful book of the Bible) he is presented almost as a prosecuting attorney.
There's a good discussion of Satan in Wikapedia, go give it a try.
I fear that if you surrender to Christianity you will surrender your thinking ability, and accept any legend, rumor or political agenda they wish to shove down your throat.
I'm not usually a spokes-person for any religious doctrine, be it Christian or atheist. But reading your posts here I can see that you are in the last throws of being a free-willed human being, and that I hate to see.
Bob
Atheists say human beings are no different from all other creatures. Darwin and his theory of evolution brought down the axe's blow upon any link human beings allegedly have to the supernatural. "We're 100% material!" is what they say. Our thoughts, our emotions, our ideas are all products of matter, a mixture of chemical energy and, I don't know, diffusion? And remember: existence precedes essence!
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth," is what christians believe. The heavens declare the glory of God! The fool hath said in his heart, "There is no God."
What the hell am I supposed to believe?
Bob, you're trying to convince me with stereotypes that a religion which has existed for thousands of years is in the business of robbing people's minds? Prove it! I've encountered folks like you far too many times, ready to slander without hesitation what they don't understand. I'm well aware of the dangers of cults and phonies out here in the arena of madness raging all around me. Don't you think I know? What do you think I'm doing by questioning what I don't understand.
And when you come saying things like what you've said in post 19, you're behaving just like them. In my opinion, it's a dangerous thing to take advice that comes from a person like you, because, by doing so, I run the risk of turning away something that just might be true after all. You can't present me with any rational arguments to validate your claim. People like you just add to the buzz with suspicions and evil surmisings bordering on paranoia.
Then you dare direct me to wicapedia, a website notorious for its inaccuracy! I'd do better listening to a simple-minded christian who knows the bible inside and out.
So unless you can prove your arguments to me, don't waste your breath. Nor do I need your false sympathy either. How do you know christians are not free-willed? When were you ever one? Or were you?
I apoligize for the tone I'm taking with you, it's just that I'm an honest person, especially when it comes to matters that I consider highly important, and I guess I'm sensitive to people trying to mess things up.
Okay, reading over my last post, I would have been angry too. I appologize for talking down to you, and that's what I was doing.
The truth is, I have spent a lifetime of searching, and am unable to sum up my meager findings on a simple message exchange system. I can't do it. Nor would you be satisfied with the results because, frankly, I have not learned all that much.
But, if I have learned anything, it is to think critically, and to know when I'm not being critical in my thinking.
I pointed you to Wikapedia because it's a good summary, and just to blow it off by saying it is notoriously inaccurate is hogwash. Tell me why this particular article is hogwash? Then you are thinking critically.
To respond to your question about my religious preference: why does that matter? But, I do consider myself a Christian, since it does seem to matter to you. However, I no longer accept dogmatism as a substitute for thought. I happen to believe that Christ's teachings are (for the most part) a good way to live, and wish we would all live as Christ would like us to. But, you originally asked about Satan, and then you follow it up with long self-questioning posts that indicate to me that you have pretty much made up your mind to quit thinking logically and to accept dogma for thought.
For example, you say in post 8:
"I'd probably go as far as to call myself a theist because I don't believe in evolution. The universe is so complex, so unknowable and misunderstood that
there is just no way I can see it as some cold, random, and purposeless thing. I could never see myself as a descendant of apes. I mean, out of self-respect,
I'd rather not. But the bible says that when god's son took on the form of a human, clothing himself in our mortality, he elevated the worth of humankind.
It amazed me when I first heard of this. That god would humble himself to identify with corrupt, evil people. I mean, does it mean nothing to you, doesn't
it touch you in any way that god would do such a thing? I can't prove that any of this is true, but just considering what the bible says about this helps
me understand why we value life so much."
Frankly, who cares. I don't mean that in a personal sense. I mean the universe doesn't care whether you or I believe in evolution: it's just going to continue making fosels for us to explain away. I doubt that God, if he exists, cares either.
You are right about Christ's sacrafice for us is beautiful, and Milton explains it beautifully in Paradise Lost. But, Milton is not science. By the way, just as an aside, Satan is presented there as a tragic hero of sorts. I always thought that was rather interesting.
You state, "That Jesus existed is a historical fact, even extrabiblical sources testify to this." The only extra biblical personage that I know of who spoke of Christ's existence was Josephus and there are those who speculate that his statements about Christ were inserted by later Christians to bolster their claim that Jesus was the Christ.
However, all of this is merely argumentative. All I am asking you to do is to think about what you believe and why.
Since you seem to be asking for our beliefs and not our proofs, I'll tell you what I believe.
I believe that there is a supreme being directing our every step, but to what end, I don't know. I don't believe in a Satan or hell because to do so would be to attribute to God such gruesomeness that I wouldn't want to worship him. I mean, did he sit by while the holocaust was happening, and not intervene? But, these are my beliefs, not my proofs.
Don't know if this helps, but I hope so.
Bob
I just had a thought I could add to this topic, which might well steer it in another direction. Let's talk about things that go on right here on the Zone. Now, I have Quicknotes turned off so I hear about this second-hand, but it seems a lot of people like to start fights and drama and engage in various forms of character assassinations and backstabbing and so forth. Do you think there's some unknown random force called a devil that just instructs or encourages people to do these things? I don't think so. I've discovered that people can come up with their own reasons why they want to be mean to people. Again, it could be as simple and pointless as they felt like doing it at the time. It could be that they flat-out don't like the person they're victimizing and want to hurt them as a demonstration of their hate. Perhaps they just think they can get away with it because it's hte internet and you're just typing words that don't really hurt anyone, right? It could be that it's amusing or humorous to make somebody fly off the handle when you're cruel to them. Apparently people see some kind of advantage to themselves by being mean to others. Who knows. Any thoughts?
I don't ever desire to misrepresent or misinterpret the sources I use, and I hold the same attitude toward the bible. I find myself looking for answers in this book because many others have done the same throughout history. I've based this topic on what the bible has to say about the devil and I've gained some understanding in my recent study. I'm saddened that with so many christians on this website not one has come forward to defend or clarify what their holy book has to say about this subject. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves!
In my recent study I've learned that the christians are taught to look at the devil or satan as a spiritual being who opposes god and his work, as one who contradicts god as did the serpent in the garden of eden, as one who thwarts the efforts of anyone who seeks god by faith, as one who discourages the doing of good, as one who causes believers to doubt in the forgiveness of god through the merits of the savior, as one who tempts but who can also be resisted, as one who accuses, as one who kills, steals or destroys, as one who is the father of lies, as one who seeks to be worshipped, as one who deceives, as Beelzebub, the list goes on. He is the opposite of god in character but not in power. Christians are taught that they are in the midst of a spiritual warfare, that they wrestle not with flesh but with angels, principalities and powers.
The bible never says that the devil is the one responsible for the evil committed by humankind nor do I find any christian in the bible saying such a thing. On the contrary, the bible says there is an evil spirit at work in this world and is a potent influence inside every person, and that everyone is given the power to overcome this influence by surrendering to god's holy spirit. Moreover, christians are told that there is no other way of obtaining forgiveness from god apart from the merits given freely by the death of his son. Hence, the christian is taught to believe that he or she has been saved. This is what they refer to as the gospel. If this gift is rejected, if the salvation god made possible to humankind through the sacrificial death of his son is rejected, then the sinner will die in his sins and will stand before god as a guilty person in the judgement. Never are the christians taught that the devil is responsible for their sins.
Sheep were used by the Jews in their religious laws as a symbol of christ's sacrificial death and thus a sinner could obtain remission of sins. There are many symbols in the old testament that served as precursors to what happened at Golgotha.
In the old testament, god is portrayed as refering to Nebucchednezar the king of babylon as Lucifer. This king became so proud because of his kingdom's glory and power that he believed himself to be god. In doing this, he opposed god. Christians interpret this passage as a symbol of spiritual warfare between god and satan.
In the same way, God is portrayed as refering to the king of Tyrus as "the cherub that covereth". This king said he himself was god, again opposing god. Christians also interpret this as a symbol of spiritual warfare between satan and god. But here the king of Tyrus, a great man in wisdom and power, is refered to as an angel. I don't think christians believe god was calling this king an angel. They interpret this as an indication that satan, god's greatest adversary, was brought down out of heaven in the same way the king of tyrus was brought down an destroyed. There are many instances in the old and new testament where angels are battling, and these battles always appear as having some connection with human affairs, with worldly affairs, with wars and other such evils.
Godzzilla on Toast, when speaking of the devil we can't limit the conversation to what happens here on the zone. We can't seperate our idea of the devil from religion because it seems to me to be clear that some sort of dualism has always existed in how humanbeings view the world and the things that happen in the world. Perhaps we should ask ourselves why human beings cannot divorce the thought of a devil from evil. Don't you agree that these things have always been controversial among thinking people?
Just think back to a few years ago, when the two world wars were raging. Why are there so many theories that the Nazi's were involved in some sort of religious belief system? Why do some speculate that some sort of spiritual influence drove them to enforce the carrying out of such horrors? Were they led astray by astrology or by satan?
Or think of what happened on September 11. Why does the devil always come up when such things happen? Is the devil someone human beings mentally implicate in such events, or does the devil truly show himself through such events?
And just look at how human beings are fascinated by evil. Horror movies; prostitution, drug abuse, gangs, everything you can associate with evil has been glorified in some way or another. People flock to these things. Producers of such things are rich because they know what their audience wants. Do you know what producers of horror movies research so that their movies will be a success? They research the response such movies recieve from people who watch them. I don't know who is controlling who? Are they controling people's minds, or are the people controling their work?
It's just so mysterious that I can't even come near to understanding it all!
i actually think that all of the prophets that came before and after jesus were also manifestations of god. not just jesus alone.
Wow. I really don't know what to think on that. We don't have any kind of devil in my religion, though there are certain deities that are, let's say, more harmful than good. But we don't see it as good versus evil. They're just a part of the cosmos. I've never really heard of anyone in the mythoi being tempted by a god. Usually, when they chose to do things, it was of their own accord, though I do recall seeing a few things that blurred that distinction. If, for example, a god takes human form and tricks the person or promises something to him/her and then the other gods intervine and don't let it happen, sometimes starting a war among themselves... I'm thinking of the Trojan war here and the Iliad and the Odyssey. I guess some could argue that Dionusos (Dionysus) could be held responsible for the actions of those who follow him, but I'll leave that to my friend, who is a Dionysian priest to decide. I'm seriously gonna post a question now on my religious groups about this! I wish I know more of the myths so that I could better illustrate things. I've also heard of people contacting deamons (not daimons, but actual deamons who are not human) when working with spirits. I used to think these ideas were false, but I'm truly beginning to wonder now.
actually if u ask me, no, the devil doesnt make us do anything. we have free will and we do things out of our own actions. no one can justify our acts of meanness or evil but us. and anyway, the way satan is depicted is not really accurate. there is no red evil deity with sharp teeth and a long tail that talks and claims that he is the devil. purely fictional. hell is used as a scare tactic anyway to scare people into believing a certain way.
Well, You have all gone close, but haven't touched on this.
Yes, essentially Satan is responsible for this all sinful nature, but we are also responsible. We let him in. We let the visitor enter after he knocks, not thinking of the goods or the bads. We don't try to account for it. We blame it all on him, but after all we let him in. We let the travelor who knocks come in and rule over us. We let him do whatever he desires, and that causes trouble. We sin, and he caused it, because we have permitted him. It's like a teacher letting the student cheat, when they are carefully watching and noticing it.
rather interesting topic indeed. I have had similar thoughts and am wondering other things and this is one that always gets me. I guess I would agree with the poster above me and that would give the explanation to the free will of the people. It would just unfold many explanations from there. For what i believe is similar--there is someone that directs the paths of people's lives. I however, don't get too concerned about much of the controversy and let life take me wherever it wants to. Just as i find something has good intention, is both beneficial and enjoyable with others then I am on top of it.
Well, that's about the bible's version here, my post above is. God is directing our lifes, but when we move from home and away from parents, are they going to be able to stop us from visitors? No, we are sort of on our own. Your parents aren't going to stand over your house, and direct traffic to who can come in and who can't.